Louise Bazalgette: Hi, everyone. Welcome to our latest Nesta talks to, which is our conversational event series with today's most exciting thinkers on the big topics related to our emissions and innovation methods. I'm Louise Bazalgette, deputy director in the Fairer start mission at Nesta, which is the UK's innovation agency for social good. At Nesta, we design, test, and scale solutions to society's biggest problems. And our three emissions are to help people live healthy lives to create a sustainable future where the economy works for both people and the planet and to give every child a fairer start.

The fairer start mission aims to close the early years outcome gap between children eligible for free school meals and the national average. Evidence suggests that low family income is one of the key drivers of lower educational attainment among children on free school meals. And I'm talking to Sophie Livingstone today because baby banks like Little Village have an important role to play in supporting families affected by child poverty and to help relieve the impact of low income and improve the lives of children and adults in disadvantaged families. So I'll now introduce our speaker.

Sophie joined Little Village as CEO in February 2021. She spent over 20 years in the social sector. She was previously the founding CEO of City Year UK. This is a charity enabling young people to tackle inequality through doing a year of voluntary service in schools. Sophie has also served as deputy CEO of the Private Equity Foundation, which is now called Impetus PEF.

Most recently, she was managing director of Trustees Unlimited, which is focused on strengthening and diversifying charity boards. Sophie was chair of trustees at Little Village from 2018 until September 2020, and she was also previously cochair and cofounder of Generation Change and a trustee of the Royal Voluntary Service. She was awarded an MB for services to charity in the 2020, Queen's birthday honours.

So welcome Sophie. We are really pleased to have you with us here today. And before we start our Q&A, I wanted to invite our audience to join the conversation in the comments box on the right-hand side of your screen and ask any questions that you'd like to put to Sophie throughout the event. Closed captions can also be accessed via the LinkedIn livestream, if you want to have access to those.

So after a rather lengthy introduction, Sophie, welcome.

Sophie Livingstone: Hi. Thank you so much for having me.

Louise: And while we're waiting for questions to the audience to come in, and please do start putting those in the chat box, I'll start by asking a few introductory questions just to get us started. So Sophie, please, could you start by telling the story of why Little Village is needed and how the charity was founded?

Sophie: So Little Village was founded not by me but by Sophia Parker, who now works at the Joseph Rowntree Foundation. And she was living in Tooting. She just had her third baby back in 2016 and knew it was her last baby, and had an abundance of stuff, as you do. Those of us who are parents know how much you accumulate when you have children. She wanted someone to pass it on, but wanted to pass it on to a family who wouldn't necessarily be able to afford all the kit that you need when you have small children.

She was talking to other mums about that, including one who was a social worker, who got in touch with her saying, you know your idea-- I've got a family that I'm working with who've lost everything in a fire. She put something out on Facebook about that, a request for help, and within 24 hours, her front room was full and so began what she initially called her evening project and then, eventually, her husband at the time said I think maybe we could get our living room back. And so Little Village was more formally born. And we moved into a church hall, Saint Mark's in Balham, which we're still using actually. And Little Village then expanded from Tooting to Camden and now we have five spaces across the capital.

The reason we need it is because child poverty, sadly, has been growing since 2016. And, of course, with COVID and the cost of living crisis, it's rising rapidly. And the cost of having young children in particular is really, really expensive. So there's essential items that are really essential. They're not luxuries-- having a safe place for your child to sleep in, a buggy, toys, warm clothes, good shoes that you can get out to the park in, for example. They're all really essential for children's development. And if you haven't got enough money to provide those for your children, they will fall behind. So those items are really critical for families, but a third of children in London live in poverty. So we know that they are not readily available to families who necessarily need them.

Louise: Oh, thank you [INAUDIBLE] how it all got started, and fantastic you've been able to grow in the way that you have. So I wanted to ask you next, could you tell me a bit more about-- if you're a family who's looking for support from Little Village, how might you experience that? What's that experience like for families?

Sophie: So all the families we support are referred to us. So we ask for a professional referral-- so health visitor, social worker, midwife-- but also other charities like food banks, for example, refer to us. And that's because when people come to Little Village, we don't want to have to put barriers in their way and ask them to prove their need. We want that to be done by someone that's working with them. But also, from a safeguarding perspective, families are often very vulnerable, and having someone who's referred them means-- to us means that if we identify issues that they need further help with, we've got somebody else we can go back to talk to.

So a referral partner will fill in a referral form on our website, and then families come to us either in person-- so we have our spaces across London that are set up like boutique shops that are beautiful spaces for families to come in, have an appointment, and have what we like to talk about as a sort of personal shopping retail experience to choose items, or if they're too far away or they can't get to us because they've just given birth, for example, we will pack to order. So we will talk to the family on the phone about what they need, what's the nappy size, what are their children into, or they're into Peppa Pig or Paw Patrol or something else, and then we will pack to order for that family and send out a delivery by DPD.

Louise: Wow, fantastic. What a lovely service. So for those who are just joining today, we're in conversation now and we're able to field any questions you might have to Sophie, so I've got lots that I want to ask, but if there is anything you'd like to find out, then please do put it in the chat, and we can then put those questions to Sophie.

So I wondered, Sophie, what have you learned through your work in Little Village about some of the day-to-day issues that are most impacting on families?

Sophie: I think the depressing thing is that since I started in the job, let alone getting involved with Little Village in 2018, the situations families are facing are increasingly extreme. There is just less money to go around.

So we see and hear directly from families some really difficult choices that they're making, so things like extreme nappy rationing, like one nappy per 24 hours, cosleeping forward to a single bed for warmth, as well as not having enough space in the one room that a family is living in to put up a cot, for example. So sometimes, we will deliver a cot and realise that there just isn't physical space to put it up in the room. Parents putting babies on towels to save nappies, for example, watering down formula-- just that extreme anxiety. And that is for families often who are working as well.

So we had an ICU nurse get in touch with us who was on maternity leave. Both parents worked in the NHS, and her baby had started weaning, and she couldn't afford the extra cost of the food for the baby now that she was weaning them. So she was down to one meal a day, which, obviously, when she's back at work, is not very safe when you're working a 12-hour shift on ICU. But she still couldn't make things-- couldn't make the money stretch, so she was coming to us for help. So we're seeing people who wouldn't imagine they would need to turn to a baby bank or a food bank, for example, because there's just not enough money to go around even if they are working.

Louise: How challenging. And I just wondering, Sophie, how do your staff find that when they're encountering people in such challenging situations, and what support do they need when they're kind of supporting families with that.

Sophie: Yeah, it's staff and volunteers, actually, because we could not do what we do without our incredible volunteers. So it's very often the volunteers, actually, who are hearing that both when they're supporting a family in the shop situation or we do a Signposting and Guidance service as well. So if families identify things that they need extra help with, we will refer them in for our Signposting service. And I think that's probably the hardest end of the work we do, which is really trying to work through with families how we can help them access additional support, and sometimes, there just isn't anything. They're claiming all the money they're eligible to claim. They're getting all the support. They know about the toddler groups. And it's just still not enough. It's really hard.

But obviously, we have to support each other. Love and solidarity are two of our values as an organisation, and that is for both the families, but also each other. We are a community who are there to act with compassion and with love for people who need help. We all need help at different times in our lives. And we need to try and support each other. We will all, sometimes, need help in dealing with what we're seeing.

Louise: Thank you. And we've had a question from one of the people in the audience, called Jessica Edwards, and she says, "I'm a big fan of Little Village. It does such important work I've been really impressed by how the organisation has managed to expand and scale its work since I first started donating 'stuff.' How has that been possible? What's the financial model? Does the organisation receive core funding to enable this?" So thanks for your question, Jessica.

Sophie: Hi, Jessica. thanks for being a fan. Yeah, I mean, I think our expansion has been due to, I mean, COVID, actually. We received an awful lot of emergency funding in COVID, which enabled us to do some things that we had been wanting to do pre-COVID. So in particular, testing the delivery model to families-- obviously, we had to. Prior to that, we were welcoming families in to a sort of church hall setting, and we-- sort of a rifling through boxes with volunteers, but all families at once, which the volunteers enjoyed, but I think families found challenging as an experience. Obviously, you're in a vulnerable situation if you're coming to ask for help and it wasn't necessarily providing the most sensitive way of supporting families. So we've now changed that.

But in COVID, we got funding to do deliveries, which was great, and that's become part of our core model, which is, obviously, really critical in a city as big as London. But core funding-- we don't get government funding. The only statutory funding we've had is from the GLA for our Signposting and Guidance service, or Greater London Authority.

But apart from that, it is trusts and foundations, corporates, and individuals. And we need more of that money. I think it can sound-- Little Village is a simple concept in terms of taking preloved items, passing them on to families, but actually, the magic in between is quite complicated. And I didn't really think I was coming to run a logistics business, but that's sort of what we do.

And space is really critical, if you think about the amount of space 20 buggies can take up, for example, let alone cots and mattresses and then all the toys and the clothes and space to, then, sort them, we're really difficult to share space with. We need our own space. We've been really lucky to have been gifted spaces-- in particular, a former Debenhams in Hanslope, which, at the moment, operates as our makeshift warehouse. But we won't have that forever. We need large spaces, and that costs money.

And then the deliveries themselves as well - DPD is probably the most efficient way of doing it, but it's 10 pounds per delivery to a family. So those costs rapidly grow. We've worked really hard, obviously, at fundraising to meet that need, but we are closing our referrals form at lunchtime on a Monday every week because the demand is so high, it's outstripping our ability to fulfil it. So it's really frustrating, although we've grown and we've been successful, the need continues to outstrip that success.

Louise: Thank you, Sophie. And thanks for the question, Jessica. If anyone else in the audience has a question, please do put it in the chat, and I'll be able to field those questions alongside our discussion that we're having. So I just wondered, could you tell us a little bit more, Sophie, about some of the different types of support that Little Village can offer? You kind of mentioned the signposting offer funded by Greater London Authority. So yeah, can you tell us a bit more about the different types of support?

Sophie: Yeah, so the GLA have got a real emphasis on advice and guidance, which is great, and we were finding that a lot of the families coming to us are connected into communities which is-- and support, which is great, but a lot of them aren't and are really isolated. And we have built up trust with them because we've delivered them-- either delivered them or they've been given a beautiful package, and we really go above and beyond to make that feel like a gift that's been given with love.

And I think, often, there's a bit of anxiety about preloved-- what am I going to get? And actually, when they see that it really often doesn't even look like it's been worn. I mean the items we get are beautiful, and the volunteers tie them up with ribbon and make it look beautiful. That trust is, then, being built with the family, so then they are willing to have a further conversation and open up about what else they might need. So it's conversations about do you need a food bank referral? How much food have you got in the fridge? Have you got housing issues?

I joined a call with some of our Signposting and Guidance volunteers about-- one of them was talking about a parent who had an older child who was eligible for free school meals, but the school were putting some barriers in the way of getting that eligibility, and the volunteer fought really hard to make sure that parent had the right proof of evidence and got that FSM through for that child, which, obviously, would make a big difference to that family's budget every week.

So it can be a real range of things. It could be clothes for older children, for example, because we only go up to five. We are quite flexible in the range of things. Or it could just be what groups are you plugged into? Do you know about your local children's centre? Are you getting out and about? Can we connect you with Home Start so you can have a supportive volunteer to connect with you on parenting, those sorts of things. The early years are really, really isolating, even when you have resources. So it's about that holistic picture for families as well as, obviously, the really fundamental things, like have you got enough food in your cupboards.

Louise: Thank you. And you've sort of mentioned some of the different kind of organisations that you might interact with and share referrals with, but could you tell us a bit more about some of the main partners that you work with as a charity, both at a local level and a national level?

Sophie: Yeah, so locally, the referral partners that we work with-- there's about 2,500 individual referrers across London, which is incredible. And they range from midwives-- we're really close to St. George's Hospital in Tooting, for example. So sometimes, we get a call from the labour ward saying we've got a mum here with nothing, please, we're not letting her go until she's got some stuff. So our volunteers will pack an emergency bundle and walk it down the road. So we have that sort of relationship.

Or it's the local children's centres, local food banks, and it's a reciprocal agreement. So Brixton and Norwood Food Bank, for example, have a donation collection for us, which they drive over, as well as us getting referrals from their clients over to receive items as well. So we try and create quite a deep relationship with local partners that goes both ways because, obviously, we can help each other.

At a national level, I am working or we are at little village are working with Save the Children, Purposeful Ventures, and Baby Bank Network Bristol and various other baby banks to create an alliance of baby banks across the country. So food banks have done this really well. People know what a food bank is. They know about the need for food aid. But baby banks are not so well known, and we want to change that because, actually, what we're doing in local communities has a longer lifespan. We've got a contribution to the circular economy, to connecting communities, to sharing-- if child poverty magically ended tomorrow, we might continue to exist as parent-sharing networks, for example.

So we're working together to build that alliance of baby banks, and we're actually launching our membership next week. So watch this space for, hopefully, more noise from baby banks coming together because there are incredible baby banks up and down this country, some of them really established, and some of them really small, responding to a very micro-local community need.

And the thing that's really interesting talking to them is they respond in a way that works in their community. So we at Little Village have always said we want to just operate in London. The way we work fits the city we're in. But actually, outside London, a lot of baby banks work just directly with referral partners, and they don't see families. Referral partners, like midwives and health visitors and social workers, all have a car for work, and they will come and pick up the items. And that supports their engagement with the family, their building of trust. It also makes the baby banks work a lot cheaper because they're not paying all the delivery costs and things like that we're paying. But also, in smaller communities, it makes it more anonymous for families as well.

So I spoke to a baby bank up in a small town in Scotland who said, no, we don't see families individually because people would know that they were needing our help, and we want to make it anonymous and create that dignity for them. So that's why we work with referral partners. So it's really interesting that there's that different community response to need that we want to celebrate but also create ways in which we can collectively raise our profile, potentially raise money collectively, and talk about the common themes that we're all experiencing, which is that huge need from families with young children.

Louise: Thank you. And before we move on to some of the audience questions, I just wondered, do you have a sense of how many baby banks there are in England? Are there a lot, or is it still a relatively—

Sophie Livingstone: There's about 200 cross-country-- across the UK. And we're covering some, so that's the ones we know about. There's a map on the Little Village website, so if people want to find their local baby bank, have a look on our website, and there's a map that directs you to the ones we know about, anyway. And if you know of any others, please invite them to get in touch.

Louise: Oh, wow, that's amazing. So I just had a question come into the chat from George Le Roy, and he said, "Hello. The work Little Village does sounds incredible. Thank you for sharing your experience. At Capacity, we are currently working on a project to find the root causes of health and social care problems in Cheshire and Merseyside as a first step towards leading projects to bring about system change in public services. How much do you think job insecurity is a root cause for people who need the support of Little Village?"

Sophie: I think-- hi, George. Thanks for the question. I think it's one part of it. So I definitely think that people are in insecure and low-paid work that doesn't pay enough. But, of course, with anything to do with young children, childcare is inextricably linked with that. So you have that issue of no job, no childcare, no job, which traps parents as well.

So you might, if you've got a two-parent household-- of course, a lot of the parents we support are single parents-- but with a two-parent household, you may have one parent working in a really insecure job, and that compounds the issue, but really, to make life work in London, you need a dual income household, but actually, the cost of childcare outweighs the income that you will get going back to work if you can even access it. So I think there's so many systemic issues that are barriers for families. But yeah, I think we've got to sort childcare as well as the challenge with jobs.

Louise: Thank you, Sophie. And then we had a question come in from Sarah Mcloughlin, and she said, "While you're focusing on minimising the impact of child poverty on families, what role do you think Little Village and other similar organisations have to challenge systems that cause families to be unable to afford the basics?"

Sophie: Well, hi, Sarah. Thank you for that question. I completely agree. We've always talked about being a force for change as well as being the sticking plaster in terms of there's an immediate need that a family has that we can help with, but it doesn't solve the long-term problem. And we have always felt that-- and that was part of Sophia, our founder's, vision at the beginning of Little Village, which is also need to be that force for change and create a way in which families can talk about the situation they're in and the solutions that might be there.

But I think the Baby Bank Alliance is why one reason why we want to get involved with creating an alliance because I don't think as a London-based charity we will necessarily be able to affect the change that we could together. I believe in the power of the collective, and I believe in working as baby banks, but also having the firepower of an organisation like Save the Children who's got that advocacy experience and connections, and people who have the capacity to do that. We just don't. I mean, I love doing influencing. It's my background. But we've also got a warehouse to find and all these other things to do. So actually, by coming together and creating powerful power in the collective, that's how I think we will make that change. But I think it's absolutely at the heart of what we believe in and what we want to happen.

Louise: Thank you, Sophie. It's great to know that you're sort of doing that advocacy work behind the scenes as well. So we've had a message here from Peter Grigg, and he says, "Hi Sophie. Love Little Village. Thank you for all that you do. The existence of food banks is something that one would hope wasn't needed in society. With baby banks, it's a bit more difficult, but the huge growth in demand driven by poverty is a sad situation. So strategically, how do you manage this tension between your vision for systemically tackling poverty while also meeting the need and building for the required growth?"

Sophie: Hi, Peter. Yeah, it's a challenge in that I constantly question the sort of we're trying to build this, as Little Village, trying to build this infrastructure, trying to get a warehouse, trying to put this together, and actually, I wish it wasn't needed so urgently. But I suppose my two answers to that are the alliance going upstream, continuing to make that case, and making that case at a national level, and trying to get real firepower behind it, but also accepting it's not going to change anytime soon, sadly.

Even if the economy suddenly turns around, I just think there are so many systemic issues that need to be tackled that we're looking at certainly in the next three to five years being significant need. So we have to build for that. But we also have to think about if we were put out of business from a child poverty perspective, what would that look like.

And I definitely think there is a role because we have the sharing of preloved items element to what we do, unlike the food banks, that I think there is a longer-term role for that community engagement element to our work. So I think that normalising reuse, helping people to connect through reuse and sharing of items is something that I think will be a legacy of the baby bank movement when, hopefully, we're no longer needed for child poverty reasons.

Louise: Yeah, thank you. Yeah, I can really see that rationale as well. So we also had a question come in from Kiara Cox, and she said, "Is reducing child poverty in the UK an impossible task with the two-child limit benefit policy of the government and, also, Labour's plan to maintain it?"

Sophie: Well, I mean, I still think there might be hope with a Labour government. I know that Rachel Reeves has been talking about-- if a Labour government is elected, Rachel Reeves has been talking about-- the last Labour government took a million children out of child poverty, and the next Labour government will do the same. I think we have to hold their feet to the fire, but I think the influencing will need to happen post an election. I suspect they're so nervous about getting elected that they're not going to change their line on two-child benefit until after an election. So I suspect it's post-election when we've got to really come together and push hard on that case.

But it goes beyond that, doesn't it? There needs to be a child poverty strategy. It needs to be broader than-- obviously, ending the two-child limit is fundamental, but we need childcare. We need affordable housing. We need decent transport. There's an awful lot to sort.

Louise: Thank you, Sophie. And we've actually, at Nesta, we've also been doing work on the two-child limit, so we're looking to publish that next year. But yeah, we very much share the concerns of those asking questions as well about that policy. So we had a question from Joy B. come in, and they said, "I know many people still sadly feel ashamed of needing basics, but maybe there could be an emphasis that reusing equipment is good for the planet so also get people bringing in equipment as well?"

Sophie: Yeah, totally agree. And I think that's part of the dignity piece of what we want to talk about at Little Village, and I really want to do more on encouraging families to bring back the items we've given them so it almost feels like a membership set up for them. We do say that to them. I think there's more we can do in terms of our comms of saying this is about-- you can come back in three months time when your children have grown out of these items and bring the things they've grown out of so that they feel like there's a quid pro quo. We do have people who we've supported volunteering with us as well.

Of course, life with small children is chaotic enough, let alone the circumstances that a lot of them are under. But actually, a lot of those that do come and volunteer with us talk about being part of that Little Village community and it being much broader. But yeah, I think the reuse piece is a way of making it less stigmatised because there's so much stigma around needing to ask for help. Asking for help is difficult for all of us at any point, and as well as admitting that you're struggling, particularly, to provide for your children because it's such a point of pride. We all really want to do the best for our children, and having to say I can't do this is a really hard thing to do. So we're trying to find lots of ways in which we can make that easier for people.

Louise: That's great. And yeah, obviously, just being able to reuse all of those things and making sure they go to the right people is absolutely fantastic. So great questions coming in-- please do keep them coming in. We've got a question here from Raj Patel, and he says, "Given the growing understanding of the experience of poverty, not just in terms of material deprivation, but stigma, stress, and mental health, social connections, et cetera, what are the messages for other services? What's the downside, if any, of welfare services that are largely aimed at those in severe need?"

Sophie: Yeah, I suppose there's only a certain amount that we can do. We are not going to solve all of those problems. However, we do know that growing up in poverty without the essentials you need can lead to you being-- I think it's four times more likely to develop a mental health condition by the age of 11, obviously lack of school readiness, all of those things. So I suppose, like I said at the beginning, those items that you need in the early years are not a luxury. Things like toys are not a luxury. Children need those for their development. So they really are essential.

But we are not going to solve all of the challenges that families referred to us have, which is why we want them to have a referral partner so we can identify any safeguarding or other support needs and have that conversation back with the referral partner and make sure they're continuing to access support as well as the Signposting and Guidance service.

But also, that's why we want to work in partnership with others in the community because there are all sorts of amazing organisations, like Home Start that Peter Grigg runs, who are doing incredible work with families and parents. So we're part of an ecosystem. None of us can solve any of this alone.

Louise: Absolutely. And I just wondered Sophie, because we're sort of referencing some of the challenges with the context of other services at the moment, and I just wondered, have you seen a change in recent years in terms of the services that are available at your local areas to families? And has that affected the demands on Little Village at all?

Sophie: I think, yeah, there are fewer services, and in terms of signposting to groups and things like that, there's obviously fewer of those available. And then I also think we are providing a service for the public sector, so we often get comments from our referral partners about this-- as a social worker, this is a lifeline for me to support my families. So I don't quite know what they would be doing if organisations like us and other baby banks were not around to help them. And, of course, there are all sorts of safeguarding concerns for social workers, for example, if a baby doesn't have a safe sleeping solution.

And you don't want to escalate a safeguarding concern just because of those essential items that we could solve. So there should be that recognition. Again, I suppose that's why the Baby Bank Alliance is important-- that recognition that we are providing something that's really quite vital at the moment. So what would happen if we weren't here? And how can we both increase that recognition, get more support for what we're doing-- so some baby banks have talked about having real animosity from their local authority about their existence because the local authority doesn't want to admit that there's poverty in their local community. So how can we change that dynamic so that they're seen as a positive part of the ecosystem?

Louise: And I wondered-- you've probably touched on this, but can you tell us a bit more about some of the key challenges for a charity like Little Village?

Well, I suppose-- it's we talk about it as the roller coaster, being on the front line. It's making sure you've got enough items of the right size. We're always short of the older age groups, for example. We're always short of big items like cots, toddler beds and buggies, particularly now in the cost-of-living crisis because people are selling those big-ticket items for their own household income.

So having enough supply-- demand is not an issue. There's an oversupply of demand. And then, obviously, the things that we need to buy-- we have to buy new mattresses. We buy nappies. We need toiletries to pass on to families, so making sure that we've raised enough money for that, as well as keeping the lights on and having enough spaces to operate out of, and enough supply of volunteers, so making sure that we are being as accessible as possible for volunteers to come and give their time and do the amazing job that they do.

So it's that balance all the time of a bit like whack-a-mole-- making sure that you've got everything in place all the time while also having an eye on the future. Demand is outstripping supply every single week. And that really can get you down because every Little Village feels it deeply-- staff and volunteers. We feel that need. And so not being able to meet it is really wearing and really hard. And so I feel that responsibility of trying to raise our profile, trying to raise the money so that we've got more capacity in the system to support more families. And that would get really draining if it were not for that incredible community that we have around us.

And we have different ways in which we keep ourselves going. So we have what we call moments of joy that we share. We've got a team WhatsApp group where we share lovely things that have happened to keep us all motivated and to connect those of us that are not in our hubs every day with what's happening in the hubs-- the amazing stories, the gifts of beautiful things with lovely messages from children passing on their teddies, or the messages back from families. There's lovely connection in the Little Village community that keeps us sustained through the anxiety of not being able to support enough.

Louise: I can imagine all of those sort of messages and responses from families mean so much. How do you sort of get some of that feedback and share it with the team?

Sophie: So sometimes, it just appears. It will be a comment that a family has made or a note that they send in. Sometimes, they write to our referrals team. But we also do it systematically. So we survey families that we've supported annually. And we do depth interviews with families as well. So we capture and we do that with our referral partners and our volunteers and all of that feedback is really heartwarming and lovely while also providing ways in which we can improve, of course.

But a lot of it-- and, with families, we're constantly trying to push them to tell us how to improve because they are so surprised that someone had their back at a time when they felt alone. That's the theme that comes through it is the stuff, but it's about someone caring. And that's why love is one of our values. It's why how we do things is just as important as what we're providing. We're not just giving someone a bin bag of old clothes. We're giving them a gift, and we're doing it in a way that they feel loved and heard and seen at time when they're having to fight every which way to get what they need for their children.

I can just imagine what a difference that makes.

Louise: So we've had a post from Derry from our events team. She's reminding us we're around halfway through the session. If anyone else has a question to put to Sophie, please do put it in the chat. We've had some fantastic questions so far. So please do keep those coming in. And I just wanted to ask you, Sophie, a question which relates to some of the kind of points people have made before. But can you see a world in which Little Village is no longer needed or has put itself out of business?

Sophie: Oh, I'd love to. How amazing would that be? But I suppose it's the reuse of stuff where I suspect we might exist in a different guise. But in terms of child poverty, I can't see it in the next few years. That's the really depressing thing is that I just can't. In London, one in three children is living in poverty, and there was a Joseph Rowntree Foundation report on destitution that came out a week or two ago-- the rates of destitution, which is not having access to the essentials like food, clothing, shoes, heating, et cetera, is on the rise, and it's rising fastest in London. So I just can't-- and that's extreme poverty. It's not just poverty. So I just can't see how that need is going to change in the next few years.

But you've got to have that hope. You've got to keep working towards that because child poverty was going down, and it can go down again. There is a way in which I feel like things have been so challenging for so long it's almost like we've forgotten what hope looks like. And we've got to get back to that because it is possible. It's a political choice to put families in this position. And we can choose something different.

We've all got a responsibility to say we choose something different, and we're going to do something about it. And it might feel like that's insurmountable, but that's the power of coming together. That's the power of working in partnership with lots of people to say I choose something different. And while it's not different, I'm going to do something to help individual families, and then help them to tell their story to be part of that change as well.

Louise: Thank you so much. Yeah, I love your passion that child poverty doesn't have to exist and that it can be changed because I think we all need to hold on to that. We've had a great comment here from David Blair. And he says, "Hi all. I'm from the Welsh government, leading the thinking on affordable housing. I'm also--" sorry, my questions are moving up-- "I'm also a former trustee of Llamau--" sorry, my Welsh probably isn't up to scratch there-- "the homeless charity. Like the example in Hastings Commons-- rent set at 1/3 of local median income-- and also the connection between pursuits of zero carbon go hand-in-hand with affordability-- they can save 90% of utility costs. So his question, is that a good idea?

Sophie: Yes, I'm sorry, I'm reading it to absorb his-- yes, I mean, I've heard a little bit about Hastings Commons, and it sounds awesome. What they're trying to do there in terms of purchasing property and spaces for the local community and rent capping, for example, and I feel like we have to take control of housing stock in order to make it available to people who can't afford the rocketing rent. But also, yes, it's got to go hand in hand with insulation, solar panels, all of the things that help us get to net zero. We are in a climate crisis at the same time as an economic crisis, and we shouldn't forget that.

And if we can make it more affordable to live at the same time as tackling the climate crisis and achieve climate justice as well, I mean, what's not to like, really? But I suspect that there's an awful lot behind the Hastings Commons example that's taken them-- they're doing it in a very specific local area. I mean, what Labour's been saying about tackling planning gives me a bit of hope that we may see some change under-- if there's a change of government around that agenda because, again, it just comes back to these big systemic problems, but having these demonstration projects helps to prove that, actually, this systemic change is worth it.

Louise: Absolutely. And it's really exciting to hear about some of these examples of how policies and services are trying to make people's lives more affordable, so great to hear about that. Thank you for that question, David. So we had another question from Peter Grigg, and he asked I think a great question. "What item or gift has most delighted you in terms of its impact for a family or a child?"

Sophie: Oh, that is a really good question. Well, we get all sorts of hilarious toys, like we've got a brilliant photo of a giant dinosaur strapped to a buggy that a dad took home on the bus. And we always get requests for scooters. They are the number one item, particularly, actually, for families in initial accommodation, so asylum-seeking families, I think because they're having to walk around so much, it helps then to get their children out and about. I still have to carry my five-year-old if we're walking too fast, so I definitely understand that.

What other items have delighted me-- we've had all sorts of inappropriate items that we get donated as well, which we do sometimes do a top 10 ridiculous items that have been given to baby banks. Like we found a dried up umbilical cord once or things like that that people-- to try and help people to understand that it takes us time and money to weed out some of those things.

I think some of the lovely items are when you get like a Moses basket with a card saying this has gone through three generations of cousins, and now it's being given to you, or a card from children saying this is my teddy. I'm passing it on. We did a lot of support for refugees arriving from Afghanistan when there was the evacuation, and we did massive donation sessions, and we actually had one at our house to cover South East London. And I had a little boy turning up with a cricket bat knowing that lots of children in Afghan children play cricket, and he wanted to pass on his cricket bat to another child that would enjoy it.

So it's that when people have really thought about it, that's what-- and actually children really get it, and they really understand the impact of not having toys to play with or not having the right clothes, and they really care about passing it on. So it's actually that family effort to go through and sort and then when things have been passed on is really powerful. And it does take "it takes a village" to another level because you are bringing in all members of the family to the experience.

Louise: Oh, absolutely, lovely to hear about those examples. And also, if you have any scooters that you don't need, please do give them to the Little Village because they'll be very gratefully received. So we had a great question here from Diane Tinklin in the audience. So she said, "Hi, I'm Diane from Nottinghamshire County Council. Thinking back to the early days of Little Village, what advice would you give to an organisation that is just starting to establish a baby bank, And how did you go about getting initial funding?"

Sophie: Hi, Diane. It's a really good question, and it's something that we're thinking about a lot as the Baby Bank Alliance-- so for Little Village, actually, Sophia got amazing initial funding from the Paul Hamlyn Foundation to cover her childcare while she was on maternity leave to explore setting up Little Village. And then a lot of baby banks apply for National Lottery Awards For All, which have been really, really helpful, as well as local grants things, like if you're starting out, you often don't need that much money. So it's things like the tokens in supermarkets, those sorts of community funds that you can access, but Awards For All seems to be the thing that is the step change for people.

But actually, what we're discovering is that once you've got that, then sustaining it is a real challenge. And there are lots-- there aren't-- well, capacity building to help people who have started a community project and then realise that it's spiralling-- sustaining that without burning out, flipping from being volunteer-led to staff-run so that you can sustain it, and finding the space and finding the money for space, that is a really critical point. And there aren't that many obvious sources of funding.

So that's why, as part of building the Baby Bank Alliance, we've got a Baby Bank Development Fund that we've been really lucky The Sun has got a campaign running called Baby Bank On Us, which has been supporting baby banks. And there's a grant fund that Save the Children are hosting on their website but will be able to be accessed by baby banks.

And we want to find more funders to get behind that development fund so that we can be a source as an alliance of funding and resource for baby banks because it is really difficult. But alongside that, we want to capacity build so that people know more about where to go to do grant writing, how to do it. People have been finding it really hard, actually. Funders do often make it quite difficult for small organisations to apply for money when they're small and they're not experiencing the charity sector. And we want to change that for baby banks. But I feel like that's a broader issue for our sector.

Louise: That's great to know about and, I think, some really practical advice there, which is really helpful I'm sure. And I actually just wondered as well, Sophie, in terms of what have you heard about some of the different models by which baby banks might have access to spaces where they can store equipment and goods for families? And what are some of the different kind of organisations or sources of support that are enabling them to have those spaces?

So some of them will be operating out of a garage locally or a storage unit, like a big yellow or a warehouse setting. Some will be able to access local authority spaces or sharing with children's centres, for example. We actually use cupboards at the Roehampton Children's Centre, for example, as one of the spaces that we use. So people are very creative about it. But a lot of them will start in a house, someone's house, and then find it's overwhelming. So it's that tipping point into how do I access a community space and then how do I not overwhelm that community space, and that is the real challenge.

I definitely think that there's potential with empty properties on high streets, retail outlets closing down. I really think there's potential across the country for baby banks to be accessing and bringing more life to high streets, for example, by being given access to properties that are standing empty. Again, trying to do that collectively and nationally, I think, might unlock some of those spaces.

So, for example, I was thinking when I was hearing the news about Wilko going into administration, woo, there might be some really nice big spaces that maybe baby banks could access, but the problem for us is that meanwhile space is fine, but you need it for a decent amount of time because it's quite a logistical nightmare to then have to be given a couple of months and then have to move all your buggies and cots and all your stock somewhere else. So that's why that long-term partnership with local businesses, for example, is really, really important.

Louise: Absolutely. So we've had some fantastic questions, and we are kind of running towards the end of our time. So just wanted to let everyone audience know, now's the time if you want to pose a question, and if any more questions pop up, we probably will have space for one or two more. Just to let you know, if there's something that you're kind of just putting into your chat but you haven't pressed send yet, do make sure those questions come through.

And I just wanted to ask sort of a bigger question, Sophie, in terms of thinking about what your vision is and where you'd love to take Little Village. So if funding was no object, how would you like to be able to further develop the support that Little Village can offer to families?

Sophie: The big thing I really want to do, on top of a big warehouse and ability to scale, would be working more directly with families and having the capacity to involve them more in our work and to pay them to be involved in our work more. We do have plans to have a lived experience manager next year, which is brilliant. I've been wanting to do that for ages. But there's so much more potential.

I've been talking to other charities that do this work really well, like the charity Birthrights, for example, and there's so much potential to support families, to build up their confidence, to then be a voice. But also, more than that, Birthrights, for example, have a whole panel of women that they've supported who participate in research and get paid for it. I'd love to have families on our interview panels. There's all sorts of things that we could do, but I want to do that properly. You don't want to do it tokenistically, and you want to have the budget to pay people for their time. And so that is a real dream on my wish list to get money for.

That would be absolutely fantastic.

--the warehouse, if anyone knows where we can get a warehouse, that would be brilliant.

Louise: And a lovely, free, centrally-located warehouse. So we've had two questions pop in. So there's one from Jessica Edwards, and she said, how big is the Little Village team, and how many volunteers are there?

Sophie: We've got 57 staff. Majority of them are part-time, so that's not full-time, but 57 across the network. And last year, we had over 1,000 volunteers.

Louise: Wow, that's amazing. And a question from David Blair. He said "A baby bank would sit neatly in many towns across the UK with partners. Who do you see as natural partners?" He sees Repair Cafes and Libraries of Things and vintage clothes sellers, for example, 3D printers, men's sheds-- love it. Yeah, so what are your thoughts on that, Sophie?

Definitely. And there's different ways you can do it. There's toy libraries. You could have-- again, I suppose it's the sort of evolving beyond child poverty. You could end up with a sharing library of children's clothes alongside a toy library and a book library. So there's different ways in which it could evolve.

But yes, I agree-- absolutely. I think it's that way in which you can bring the community in and show this is how you can reuse items. This is how you can access all of these things because, yes, families need kit and clothing for their babies, but they might also need a drill to put up a shelf or they might need to borrow, I don't know, a Hoover if it's broken, for example, or somebody to come and repair-- or taking their [INAUDIBLE] goods to be repaired, those sorts of things. I think they all sit beautifully together, and there's definitely-- that sharing economy is growing, and I think we've definitely got a place as part of that.

Louise: Fantastic. Well, I think we are more or less coming to the end of our time. So I wanted to thank everyone who's asked questions. They've been absolutely fantastic. I've really loved hearing Sophie's answers as well. So thank you so much for joining us today, Sophie. It's been such a pleasure to talk to you and hear about the incredibly valuable work of Little Village and how much work really goes into that from all of those staff and volunteers and partners and referral partners. There's obviously so many people that are involved in this to make it work. And thank you to everyone in the audience who joined us today, both for coming along and for the really fantastic, really interesting questions and suggestions there.

So now that we've reached the end of this event, I'd be really grateful if those joining us in the audience could please fill in a short survey. I think my colleagues are going to be posting that in the chat so that you can see a link to that. And the links going to be shared now, but it will also be available in the event's description. So we'd really appreciate you filling that out for us so that we can get your feedback on how the event worked for you, any improvements we can make. And as a thank you for filling out that survey, you'll be entered into a prize draw, and you can win a 50 pound bookshop.org voucher, which I'm sure is well worth having, so please do fill out that survey. We really value your feedback.

And also, if you haven't already, please do sign up for Nesta's newsletter. We can then let you know about other events coming up. So thanks again, Sophie, and to everyone for coming. And we've really enjoyed having this Nesta talks to learning all about Little Village and talking to you all today.

Sophie: Thank you.