In this interview, Katelyn Donnelly talks about the need for systemic innovation in order to make transformative, rather than just incremental, improvements in education and learning.

Katelyn is an executive director in the office of Sir Michael Barber, the chief education advisor at Pearson.

She is the co-author of Oceans of Innovation, which calls for a 'whole-system revolution' in the structure and priorities of teaching and learning.

For more on Katelyn's work, watch the event hosted here at Nesta with Sir Michael Barber, global expert on education reform and current chief education advisor at Pearson, where he leads its worldwide programme of research into education policy.